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schmevil
Hey hey. I have been so uninvolved in fandom that I forgot that I signed up for remix and I forgot that I finished some stories, wtf. Best get on that.

So on FFA people are talking about how terrible Marvel fandom is. Having come of age in Harry Potter fandom, I find myself thinking "Naw gurl, naw." The part of LJ/DW fic culture I'm familiar with has always been pretty civilized (outside of pits like FFR), and generally speaking, I think it's gotten less critical over the years, and far more cult of nice, at least as far as writing criticism goes.

I haven't had an outstandingly mean comment on a story since I was in Smallville (and shit, that was one limpass flame), and I'm all about readers being encouraged to respond however they please. Certainly I prefer long, detailed reviews and conversations, but I make no bones about welcoming criticism. Flames even--the most I'll do is some flocked loling. But the flames haven't come. Reviewers in Marvel and Supernatural fandoms have been unfailingly polite. Granted, I'm an unproductive, uncontroversial, non-porny NNF, but in HP everyone took some bad hits. Whether it was your first ever story, or your thirtieth, someone would pop out of the woodwork to call you a delusional hack and request that you die in a fire, posthaste.

Between YKINMK, "Stories are gifts!" and the widely accepted assumption that readers should ask before giving constructive criticism, or posting public reviews, there simply isn't a lot of room for actually talking about writing. Let it happen on anon memes. Haters gonna hate, and most everyone else is pretty damn nice.


*Consider these comments as separate from the Avengers troll issue.

Alternate: http://schmevil.dreamwidth.org/317274.html. comment count unavailable comments

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Not only have I never been flamed for a fic, I've never even SEEN a flame in the comments of anyone else's fic. Christ.

I've seen a few, but only on BNF's stories and usually anon. Just some silly drive by hate like "u sux".

I've seen a lot, but only from anonymous trolls on AO3, and only aimed at certain authors. So, like schmevil said, very little flaming outside of the Avengers troll issue.

I'm not at all sad to be out of the Marvel fandom.

Edited at 2012-03-29 01:01 am (UTC)

Point! I do have a pretty blessed fandom existence.

You got what seems like 90% of all the trolling and nastiness that went around, so I don't blame you. Compared to that, even SPN's eternal Wincest vs. the mere existence of Castiel wank is probably less stressful.

I've never been really into comics fandom, but I think a large part of why I split so much with western media fandoms is because of the whole you have to be nice and accepting of everyone. It just bugs me that there is no space for telling someone that there is a problem with their work, and if you do people tend to jump on you.

I don't find it a hardship to be nice to people. That's easy enough. I do get annoyed by the expectation that nothing critical can be said, unless specifically requested. Unless you've got a disclaimer, how am I supposed to know your preferred mode of fandom interaction? "No con-crit" isn't assumed in all fandoms--it's mostly a feature of LJ/DW Western tv fandoms.

I don't mind being nice, but there's a point that questioning or concrit becomes unacceptable in certain fandoms that I find really offputting. The most extreme cases seem to allow no room for dissent no matter how nicely you phrase it. I just don't comment on things anymore since I'm not sure how it will be taken, but then remember how that became an issue that everyone should comment because they owed it to the writer? I really feel like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't in those places and pretty much left. It helps that university eats up most of my life at least.

I get that. There've been some fandom crowds that I've had to leave because I didn't like the way the culture was going. Outside of communities that are specifically designed to foster particular types of dialogue (safe spaces, 101 comms) I think there should be as few 'rules' applied to conversation and fannish interaction as is possible. I was also, when that conversation was fresh, vehemently opposed to fic-as-gifts, and readers-owe-feedback. I think that's a really self-serving attitude, and unrealistic to boot.

Always had mostly positive experience in the Harry Potter fandom ;)


I think what weirds me about that FFA is more the... wait, which side of the Marvel fandom do you mean? thing do you mean?

I think they mean Avengers fandom, centering around Bendis' New Avengers and the movie characters.

Also, I had a really positive experience in HP as well, but it was a much... wilder fandom experience than anything I've had in recent years. Epic flamewars, politicking, inter-ship hate and all that. I've had a few bad patches in my time in fandom, but overall it's been a good experience from start to finish. Looking back there was some Scans Daily drama, some meta drama, and the odd interpersonal conflict that wrapped up pretty quickly. I'm a low-drama nobody. ;)

I was trying to make a point about the subjectivity of fandom experience, especially in any fandom that is as ridiculously gigantic as Harry Potter, or as sprawling as Marvel. I always get a bit annoyed when people generalise based on specific branches when that experience isn't universal.

Oh of course. I wrote some widely post on this subject some years back and I'm always tempted to trot it out when the subject comes up. Your part of fandom is unlike other parts. Not even small fandoms are monoliths. And even beyond objective differences, people will experience and interpret things differently.

Where was your HP experience centered, btw? Were you on LJ/DW?

trot away! I'd love to read it :)


yeah, my HP experience was mostly on LJ (it was before DW kicked off, mostly), mostly in maleslash and femslash and rarepairing fandoms (I used to be one of the editor of the quibbler_report newsletter which involved reading a lot of gen and rare pairings, which was one of the really fun part of HP, how even the very obscure side characters got all those fanfics exploring them), especially Snape/Lupin, other Snape pairings & House of Black related. There were a couple of minor wanks I can remember, and there were some the early skirmishes of what would become racefail; but overall the big wankstorm of the HP fandom were stuff I was hearing of on F_W, not stuff that were happening on my own flist; and most of the communities I was active in had a very good overall atmosphere.

I was on ff.net before they banned NC17 stories, and then moved over to Fiction Alley and LJ. Not because I was writing adult stories (I wasn't). I just followed the herd. My crowd was mostly gen Slytherfans like McTabby, some of the Weasley fans, and eventually some Sirius/Remus people. I mostly wrote gen and meta, was a mod at a Snape board, and ran weekly AIM chats for about a year. I was (very) peripherally involved in some of the big wank, but nothing to do with Cassie Clare, who was decidedly not my crowd. Sometimes I trolled for fun. ;)

After that I got into Smallville, and met many of the people who make up what's now being called 'migratory slash fandom'. I still can't remember how that happened--I suppose the show just happened to be on my flist a lot. Smallville was probably my wankiest fandom experience, now that I think about it.

Did you find the fandom more... wanky outside of LJ?

ficwise, I wrote pretty much everything (as long as it was darkfic enough XD) and lots of meta. Which wanks were you peripherally involved with?

(I was involved in some very minor Snupin specific wanks, that's pretty much it).

I totally failed, as I typically do, to jump on the next bandwaggon and take part to the migratory slash fandom (even though the people in it are typically writers/fen I rather like), neither Smallville nor SPN, nor Merlin (which I think were the main hyped thing on my flist at the time I was dropping the HP fandom). In great part because I just don't like TV shows all that much. I think I was mostly at a loss for a long time after HP, I got back into small, old fandoms like Utena; I got into Avatar, of course, and into BSG but mostly not for fanfics; and so on until I finally found my way into comics fandom.

I'm not sure I'd have an easy time to say which was the wankiest fandom. ASOIAF can be massively wanky at times, but I've learned to avoid those corners a long, long time go (it is my oldest fandom); Buffy was my first fanfic fandom so it's when I was naive enough to buy into ship wars and characters bashing narratives easily, so I didn't avoid those all that much, so I remember a lot of wanks related to it, although the main place I enjoyed it was very welcoming and peaceful. X could be pretty damn wanky at times, and I was involved a little bit in it. Mostly in good fun, but yeaaaah :)

If you can believe it, I followed migratory slash fandom into Smallville and... wrote gen. I did get into SPN, but years and years after most people (season four I think). Incest is a massive no go for me, so I focus on casefic, family and angels and demons.

Right now I'm in Marvel comics/movie fandom (obviously) and... Teen Wolf, kind of. I watch Walking Dead, Mad Men, and Game of Thrones, and talk about them with some online and offline friends, but I'm not heavily involved in the fandoms. I'd be all over True Blood, if Eric/Sookie wasn't crushing the life out of everything else. Lately, most of the energy I'd put into writing fic and writing ABOUT fic is going into non-fandom projects.

I found HP fandom off LJ to be FAR wankier. Fiction Alley was almost designed from the bottom up to create wank. A goodly number of the mods were given their positions because they were part of the in-group, or to reflect their BNFness. This resulted in uneven and biased modding. They also had a shipping forum, where fans would fight to bump their ships to the top, or to have the longest threads. Even off that board, there was all sorts of inter-ship feuding and back-biting; guilds, clubs and cliques, as far as the eye could see. So silly.

On LJ I found the wank would come from reliable sources, Attaniel say, or the CC crowd, and then spread like wildfire. It was avoidable though, if you put a bit of effort into distancing yourself. If I was bored, I'd offer my services as a gun for fire, to whichever of my friends was embroiled in it. That was usually my involvement--someone would complain about an argument they were losing, and I'd go in to support them. I used to really enjoy arguing with people. -_- As you can imagine, none of these wanks really stuck with me, as I wasn't personally involved.

Edited at 2012-03-30 10:59 pm (UTC)

I think the anons who pointed out that comics fans tend to be very critical of the source canon and prone to, ah, spirited debate about it, and that this isn't the norm in all fandoms and can lead to culture clashes might have a point. Even with all that, though, things have calmed down a lot since the huge Civil War and One More Day/Brand New Day wanks were still ongoing.

Mostly I'm just boggling at the person who thinks it's elitism to expect people to label their fics by universe. I've never been in a fandom with multiple adaptations of canon where that wasn't standard practice.

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